American wine producers 'ignorant' of Chinese culture May 8, 2007
Adam Lechmere in Napa
Americans must gain a far greater understanding of Chinese cuisine and culture before they can make inroads into its wine market, a conference heard yesterday.
Speaking at the Taste3 conference at the Copia centre in Napa, California, food writer Olivia Wu said that despite the 150-year history of Chinese cuisine on the west coast, Americans still barely understood it.
'We know Japanese, Vietnamese, Thai and other eastern cuisines but Chinese is still relatively unknown,' she said.
American wine producers enthusiastically promote their wines in the 'chaotic and unpredictable' Chinese market, 'but they ignore Chinese culture and cuisine,' she said.
Wu, who writes for the San Francisco Chronicle and spent most of last year in Shanghai, also said Cabernet Sauvignon, although the worst possible match for Chinese food, was the 'status grape' in China, and the most planted in the domestic industry.
The Chinese use no dairy, and do little roasting and baking. There are none of the sauces, nor the caramelized styles of roasts, that play such a major part in French cuisine and which have evolved along with its wines.
Cabernet 'is just so wrong,' she said, although it is drunk at official occasions and private banquets because it is the most revered of the noble varieties. 'State officials will make sure they get the best wines, whether they like them or not,' she said.
This, Wu says, is the reason for the much-mocked Chinese custom of mixing fine wines – and the whisky and brandy which they import in huge quantities - with carbonated drinks like 7-Up.
'If once you drink brandy and 7-Up you will understand. It is a combination that works all the way through the meal.'
The varieties that work best are the Riesling in all its forms, Albarino, Gruner Veltliner, she said. The 'slightly maderized' styles of Mediterranean whites also work, and some dishes could be matched with Pinot Noir.
She cited San Francisco's Slanted Door, a Vietnamese/Chinese restaurant, as having one of the best wine lists for Chinese cuisine. It has a wealth of aromatic whites including dozens of Rieslings and five or six Gruner Veltliners.
She stressed that China's 1.5bn population and its 'thriving, pounding' eating culture, was already embracing wine as a drink of choice. 'In Shanghai, every other day there is a restaurant featuring a wine region.'
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Somewhat pointless. Chinese food is ubiquitous and wildly popular in the USA. Has been since the 50s. Wine makers and everyone else eat it all the time. It's up to the restaurants to create their wine lists based on the menus, not the other way around. I'm sure any wine rep worth his salt is ready to work with them. As for the mainland Chinese, if they're happy with a Cab or a Latour with their Szechuan pork, well, what's wrong with that?
Dan Friedman, NYC Wine Report, USA
I agree, having worked in a winery in China I was overwhelmed by the ignorance of Americans. I am not a wine connoisseur but I do know the business. At the winery wine makers visited from all new world wine countries but only one from the USA (Robert Mondavi who also walked the vineyards). We did not enter a partnership with any but we did have offers. I guess it is a market that no one wants to invest in even though there is long term potential.
Certain areas should be considered:
First the foreign food market is growing and a natural match for wines.
Second wine education and pairing to Chinese regional cuisine and individual courses is very poorly documented.
Third there is more to China than the East Coast.
Fourth one must get to know the market. It amazes me that USA can sell Coke, McDonalds, Starbucks and ipods and cannot sell cars and wine.
I do hope some attention will be paid to China.
Bill Jakel, San Jose, CA, USA
But isn't Americans' familiarity with Chinese food sort of like our familiarity with Italian food? In other words, what passes for Italian (or Chinese) food in most parts of the US is a highly Americanized take on an outmoded, narrowly regional form of cooking in ye Olde Country. I haven't been to China but I do know that what I've encountered in Italy (away from tourist traps) bears hardly any resemblance to “Italian” food in America. What you get in the homeland is far more varied, nuanced and generally far better. I'd have to assume that this same sort of thing underlies Ms. Wu's criticism.
Terence Hughes, New York, USA
I find it interesting that Olivia Wu is busy championing white wines for China when 85-90% of what they are currently drinking is red.
At wine shows in China everybody tastes the whites, but drinks or buys the reds.
The real issue is the tannin level in most red wines. whilst tannin goes well with a big steak, it does not go well with most Chinese food, especially if it is at all spicy. Back of the tannins and watch the sales in China rise.
It's not rocket science, its just good old fashioned common sense.
Dan Traucki, South Australia
What's going on in China is nothing more than the unbridled chaos one might expect of an overpopulated country of people who are finding more money in their pockets than usual.
Who are you to say the American wine producers are ignorant of Chinese culture? I put it to you that it is the Chinese who are ignorant of western culture. Maybe I've just got it all wrong ... but when I studied marketing it was the consumer's demands which marketers aimed to meet. It's not up to the Americans or anyone else to tell them what does and doesn't go with their food ... even if we do know better!
I've been there. I've seen the obscenely oppulent wine bars of the Bund ... empty. I've walked the smoggy streets of Shanghai and seen the proliferation of brands (not all authentic, I must add) that are raping the Chinese sense of self. But it is, after all, the Chinese who are screaming out for the best of the world (usually so they can copy it). It's the Chinese trying to adopt western influence, not the other way around.
I told many Chinese people that white wines will go better with their food, but they don't want to hear it. They drink red wine because they think it is best, it is a lucky colour, and most French (ie world best) wines are red. If China is screaming for Cabernet, then let them drink Cabernet! Just stop canning the westerners for providing what the consumer is asking for!!
Debra Kimlin, Melbourne, Australia
Debra, the nub of the article is that American winemakers aren't doing enough to learn their markets, not whether Cabernet is the only red wine worth buying (or selling). I believe Wu mentioned that grape because it's what California hangs its hat on. My response on mondsapore.com was that a great many Italian winemakers and their agents make repeated trips to the Far East to determine what will best please wine drinkers there, and to offer them new tastes and choices. Since Italy's forte is red wine, that's mainly what the winemakers take for tastings and wine evangelism. They don't assume that “they'll buy what we've got to sell,” which is exactly the old Detroit attitude toward first the international and later the domestic market. (And, by the way, even very small producers are making the trek.) When offered more and better options, consumers deserted Detroit. There's a real sense even in the States that the same is happening with Californian wine; tastes are changing and too few winemakers on the Left Coast are paying sufficient attention.
Terence Hughes, New York, USA
Is it just so fashionable this past decade to blame all the worlds suffering on those pompous, bloated American's that when a Chinese-American travels to her homeland and finds Chinese citizens without a clue how to buy wine which will compliment their national dishes she so easily directs the blame back at the country she calls home. For this last decade, to be precise, I have been not only involved in the restaurant business in San Francisco and elsewhere but also passionate about studying wine. I have always held understanding about Chinese cuisine and it's relationship to fine wine that comes directly from teachings of the American wine industry. For example, Good Pinot Noir is an umami based wine that in the right dish can pair beautifully with mushroom and soy sauce influenced dishes, especially duck, squab, pork and game hen all of which feature in Chinese cuisine. Also, Off-dry and sweet white wines are often touted in the American wine media as good matches to the fresh herb and hot-spicy flavors of southeast Asian dishes, however, they are also often the only positive match when a dish's sweetness goes beyond the result of a red-wine reduction or caramelized vegetables as is so commonly the case especially with Chinese-American cuisine (far more prevalent in the states that authentic-Chinese cuisine but that's probably our fault also). It is so easy to redirect one's problems at another, but is it really the fault of the American wine trade/media, or the choice of those abroad to use poor judgement when interpreting it.
Anon
Olivia Wu does have her point. To enter a foreign market the marketer is well advised to become familiar first with local culture and customs and marshal the company's product and production resources to tailor products for that specific market. It is not an easy or simple task. The Chinese food culture is so different it is difficult just to get a handle as far as matching wine with food is concerned.
It is also true that the Chinese' knowledge of what and how to drink wine with food is at the start of their learning curve. Many, if not most, just go by what is fashionable or rumoured to be fashionable. Therefore the emphases on "French". But they will learn as wine goes main stream.
I don't buy the notion that wine and 7-up or Cola mix suit Chinese food the way they eat. I cook and eat Chinese food at home. We are fortunate here in Ontario that LCBO (governmental alcoholic beverage monopoly) do a very good job scouting for wine world-wide. I drink red or white with my Chinese food depending on the method of cooking rather than the ingradients. However the more robust reds are enjoyed only with steak and such. Never would I dream of mixing wine with softdrink. And I am Chinese. Here in Canada I don't see Chinese do that kind of mixing neither. They either drink or don't drink wine, but not mixing.
Gordon Chen
This should be on the "Who Gives a Shit Channel"
Derek B
I think the title of Wu's article is very offensive to say the least. A blanket statement like that does not move any discussion forward.
Lets face it, drinking grape wine with meal is not a Chinese culture. We have been downing water glasses of Brandy at wedding banquets for years not because it enhances the flavor of the food, it is because Brandy is expensive and a status symbol. Therefore, if the newly moneyed Chinese want to drink a Chateau Latour with 7-up, I say sell it to them. It may not be good marketing, but it is good business.
Drinking wine with meal is an acquired taste and culture. Remember not long ago Ameircan's were chastised for drinking White Zinfandel? Pairing wine with food is an educational process and needs TIME and MONEY. Most beginning wine drinkers are influenced by opinions of the wine experts. Most highly rated wines are Red. It is little wonder that the new Money wants Red, it has nothing to do with Chinese Culture.
Having say that, I think it is important for ALL wine producers to begin the education process for the Chinese. Eventually they will learn what to "pull" from the shelves. Now, that is good marketing.
Anon Chinese from San Francisco
I agree. Actually, American wineries have a good variety for Chinese cuisines - white Zinfandel. Remember how White Zin sold in the US in the 1980s and 1990s. However, this wine in China is now still over priced (over RMB 100, $13), and some distributors put this wine in the high end club cellars. Thus, white Zin become a fat profit engine instead of a popular wine in China.
I still remember when I approached American wineries to talk about white Zin for the leading variety for Chinese food, they all laughed at me. American trained "wine writers" 'ignorant' of Chinese culture too, even one of them don't know any foreign language but become "a famous wine writer" in the world. How these writers can respect the Chinese culture and help American to understand.
Coco, China
Olivia's allusion to the “status grape” profile of Cabernet was closest to the mark. Status is the single greatest influence in the Chinese wine-buyers purchase decision. The wines selling best in China are those which the Chinese perceive, through weight and volume of media opinion, to be the best. That is why French wine has outsold all other nationalities; why Bordeaux outsells Burgundy; why Barollo outsells Amarone; why a Parker 95 outsells a 94 and why a Napa Cab is much easier to sell than one from Sonoma.
However, the belief that pairing is the way into the market is short term and naïve. America produces many exceptional wines but rather than chasing the fabled perfect pairing, her producers should just concentrate on doing what they do best and the Chinese consumer will hear about it.
At the end of the day, if Mr. Li can afford to, he's much more likely to have one of Doug's (of the Shafer variety) Cabernets with his spicy tofu, than he is an exquisite Riesling made in Washington State by a German and Chateau Ste. Michelle, and there is nothing chaotic or unpredictable about his reasoning.
Look forward to having you guys in China soon. Are you still aiming for October?
Matthew Bahen, ASC Fine Wines, USA
Has Olivia Wu been to Spain lately? Somebody kindly inform her that the Spaniards have been mixing wine with soft drinks and fruit juice for years - it's called sangria.
Now, why does Wu have no objection when Europeans mix sweet sodas with their wine, but is appalled when the mainland Chinese do the same? That's a double-standard. I'm not suggesting that we should encourage the Chinese to keep mixing wine with 7-Up. I merely wish to point that Wu is accusing American wine producers of cultural ignorance, when she herself doesn't realize how adamant the mainland Chinese are when it comes to their taste preferences. The overwhelming majority of Chinese consumers only drink wine if it has been "corrected" with a sugary soft drink, otherwise it often comes across a bit sour for their liking. They love sweet drinks and we won't easily change their minds no matter how hard we argue with them about the "proper" way to drink wine. While there is certainly a growing number of Chinese who enjoy good wine for what it is, this is merely a pitiful fraction of the market. It's the sangria drinkers who are driving the spectacular growth of wine sales in China, not the connoisseurs.
Educating China's consumers to appreciate wine will take decades (it will certainly take longer than it did in America, which has only recently become a wine drinking nation). So unless foreign wine companies are content to limit their sales to a tiny handful of discriminating drinkers, they should not fall into the trap of selling their wines based on which varietals are "correct" for Chinese food. The bulk of China's drinkers don't care if reds like Cabernet Sauvignon are a wrong match, since they're more than happy to enjoy it as sangria. For now, it's really more effective to simply market wine as China's ultimate status symbol drink.
Alex Sawit, Makati City, Philippines
It is more than just a China Syndrome.
Many people drink the "wrong" wine with food.
For whatever reason, even in the average eatery, the match of food and wine will be less than optimal, and most average diners are not guided by staff ... er, and of course, not in the BYO.
The rather blunt instrument of a "red" with meat (etc) is pretty ordinary in match-up terms. I certainly try to "imagine" a marriage of food and wine flavours, but of course, when choosing a wine from a wine list, if you haven't tried a particular one, you are still only guessing.
If you BYO then you hope that the menu has something that is complementary. I have really only had a few meals where the food and wine combination was "sensational" and where one really lifted the performance of the other.
Sometimes it happens to be a cheese and a wine, or a dessert...but when it works, wow...
I reckon that Coke is good match for Chinese food anyway...and for many "fatty" dishes. Nothing like phosphoric acid to cut through and cleanse the gullet.
Gary Kurzer
Being Chinese and an enthusiastic wine drinker, I must say that no one is to be blamed for the popularity of reds over whites amongst Asians. This phenomenal behavior is just part of the culture and it has some valid reasons. The general approach towards food is not merely to sustain life but to strengthen our vitality and potency. Due to the benefits and health giving properties, its auspicious color and the status attested by higher price range, few Chinese would resist a red and opt for a white. More often than not status outweighs harmony between food and wine particularly if one dines in posh restaurant. It's like – “Look I know my stuff, I am drinking an expensive Bordeaux”. I concur wholeheartedly with Olivia that reds do not pair terribly well with most authentic Chinese cuisine especially Sze Chuan which has considerable amount of sweetness and heat from the generous use of spices. An overly robust red like the Cab.Sav. would prove a very poor match. Lighter reds like the pinot noir from cooler regions of France or Germany [Spatbugunder] should not disappoint but otherwise white varieties like Rieslings, Chenin Blanc, unoaked Chars etc would be a great match.
Raymond Cahn
That's totally true for wine to company with Chinese food, one among the best is white Zinfandel for sure. Riesling and Gewurztraminer would definitely be the runner up. Most of Chinese food is cooked/fried with spicy or sweet sauce, that's the reason brandy and 7-up is quite a great choice. But I also admit so far red wine will still hit in mainland China. It's a kind of showing-off for these blooming wealthy, price is not a problem but brand. Most Chinese can't even afford daily cost when the rich won't sign the bill without grand cru. Chinese market will gradually know what suits best tho it's a long way to go.
Eric, Taiwan
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Somewhat pointless. Chinese food is ubiquitous and wildly popular in the USA. Has been since the 50s. Wine makers and everyone else eat it all the time. It's up to the restaurants to create their wine lists based on the menus, not the other way around. I'm sure any wine rep worth his salt is ready to work with them. As for the mainland Chinese, if they're happy with a Cab or a Latour with their Szechuan pork, well, what's wrong with that?
