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JOHN DUVAL, LIVE CHAT TRANSCRIPT.
Wednesday 14 November 2001
Moderator - We're delighted to welcome Penfolds chief winemaker John Duval and - in a surprise visit - Kym Schroeter, red winemaker at Penfolds for the last 15 years.
Chris-Italy - I think that concentration and depth must be not so hard to obtain in your top wines,what could be the technical difficulties that you could have to face in the vinification of a wine like Grange? John - Because we've been making Grange now for 50 years I think we have a very good understanding of vinification techniques so I think the most important contribution to quality really starts in the vineyard.
Sven - Where else in the world would you like to have a go at winemaking?John - Because of our experience with Shiraz I would be fascinated to try my hand in the Rhone Valley.
Simon - John, congratulations on yet another outstanding Grange with the 1996 vintage. Can you please tell me what the percentage of Cabernet is in the 1996 Grange?John - The 1996 vintage contains 6% Cabernet. We use a small percentage of Cabernet to assist with the balance of the wine rather than look for any significant contribution from the flavour profile of Cabernet.
GHarrison - What are your impressions for the 2001 Penfolds wines?John - As you may realise, 2001 was quite a hot vintage for the Barossa Valley but the Penfolds Kalimna Vineyard and our premium growers produce some excellent fruit and we find that when seasons are warm to hot it suits the production of the rich style which Penfolds is famous for.
Arnie - Do you think the Penfolds range needs revamping? I think it all looks a bit dated.John - Are you talking about wine style or packaging?
Arnie - The packaging in particularJohn - Some of these issues are currently being addressed and we hope that you'll be pleased with the result!
james - How is Penfolds faring with the looming glut of Australian wine? Will it only be the smaller businesses that suffer as a result of reported overproduction in Australia?John - Penfolds being a premium global wine brand should fair fairly well and there is no over supply of super-premium grapes.
tash - Other than hefty Shiraz-based wines (Grange/Rhone), what other styles do you enjoy?John - I enjoy Pinot
Richard B - When do you drink Penfolds? Any particular favourites? John - I must admit that I'm spoilt in that I have the opportunity to taste Penfolds at work so outside of work I obviously like to show people some great vintages of Penfolds, but I also like to drink wines from other parts in Australia and international styles also. As for favourites, if I was a Frenchman I'd say it would be like choosing between my children!
tash - Australian wines in the mid-price bracket have done very well in the UK over the past few years, even beating the French. Do you think you stand a chance to equal that in the top price bracket?John - I think that the accolades that Penfolds Grange and Bin 707 Cabernet Sauvignon have achieved that we compare favourably with the top wines of the world
tash - How difficult is carrying on in Max Schubert's footsteps? Do you sometimes feel it's tough, living up to a legend? John - I was very fortunate that I had worked for Penfolds for 12 years under people like Max Schubert and Don Ditter before I took over as Chief Winemaker but I am very aware of the responsibility of maintaining the quality and style and icon status of the wines that Max created.
Stehen in the US - According to the Penfolds web-page, the 1996 Grange spent 19 months in new American oak. Does the time in oak vary from vintage to vintage? If so what are the shortest and longest times Grange spends in oak?John - Yes it does vary, between 18 and 22 months depending on the season. We monitor the development of Grange during the barrel maturation stage and it is a very important part of the Penfolds winemaking philosophy to bottle the wine at the right time.
CraigForrest - John, is 'chief winemaker' where you see yourself staying for the near future? Any ambitions beyond that?John - I've often thought that it would be nice to do my own thing some day, but I also consider that I have one of the best jobs in Australia, having access to fantastic vineyards and the wine making heritage of Penfolds.
Arnie - What do you think is the best Grange vintage ever, and why?John - It is very difficult to pick the best ever. In a recent tasting we did in Australia as part of the 50th anniversary of Grange, one of our local wine writers gave the 1953 a perfect score but I really like to highlight the best vintages in each decade and my favourites are 63, 71, 76, 83, 86, 90,91 and 96
moderator - John and Kym are now going to taste the Koonunga Hill Shiraz Cabernet Sauvignon 1999.John - Kym - This one is showing the typical characteristics associated with Koonunga Hill which are lifted, upfront, berry fruit flavours, integrated subtle oak, and spice. The palate is full rich and flavoursome showing lovely soft integrated long tannins. Typical of Koonunga Hill, this wine is drinking well now but with further cellaring you will be rewarded in the medium term.
Fred - John, you mentioned the tasting to mark the 50th Anniversary of Grange. As yet, do you know of any published accounts of this tasting?John - Robert Parker was at the tasting and we are expecting an article in the near future.
Greg - While many other Australian Shirazes have increased their alcohol content to 14% and over, the alcohol content of Grange has been 13.5% in every vintage between 1991 and 1996. Does this level of 13.5% continue in the 1997-2000 vintages?John - In the last couple of decades, Grange varies between 13 and 14% and I don't subscribe to the philosophy of 15 or 16% alcohol for the Penfolds Shiraz style.
tash - I've heard that Yattarna is sometimes referred to as 'white Grange'. Do you think the wine bears the comparison?John - The term white Grange really has been coined by other people not by Penfolds. We are celebrating Penfolds Grange's 50th anniversary this year and reputations are not made overnight so whether Yattarna at some time in the future can be compared to Grange will ultimately be determined by the public.
Charlie - Doesn't recorking a wine, as you do in the Penfolds clinics, have an effect (be it a small one) on the quality of the wine? Won't topping up change it too? Also, when will you be having a clinic over here in the US?!!John - There is a more detrimental effect on quality by not topping a wine that is ullaged than topping with a small amount of topping wine. We go to great lengths to protect the wine during the recorking process and in the ten years that we have been running recorking clinics in Australia there has been no negative reactions to the service we are providing. Because there's a longer history being available in the UK market, we have chosen London for the first clinic outside Australia, but would love to do one in the US sometime in the near future.
j9 - Are you happy with the Aussie system of wine classification (i.e. none), as opposed to the ancient and controversial AC rules across France?John - We could talk about this issue at great length and for a long time but we all know that appellation is not necessarily a guarantee of quality. I usually suggest that the name Penfolds is as good a guarantee of quality.
Uma - What would you take to a dessert island, a woman or a bottle of wine?John - I think I would be greedy and take both!
Aussie chick - Do you think of Grange as a 'food' wine, and if so, what would be the ideal dish to match with it?John - Grange drinks very well with beef or game dishes, or simply with a nice mature cheese (cheddar)
duke - How long have you been winemaking at penfolds? What do you still think you have to learn?John - I've been with Penfolds for 27 years. I've never made a perfect wine and although I do a lot of wine show judging, I've never given any wine a perfect score, so I guess I'm always trying to make better wines and continually looking for new ideas wherever I travel to wine regions throughout the world.
Jason-Sweden - Will the '98 vintage from the Barossa be the Mother of all vintages? John - It certainly one of the very best vintages but we were blessed with some excellent vintages in the 1990s. 1990, 1991 and 96 were also fantastic.
moderator - John and Kym are now going to taste the Kalimna Shiraz Bin 28 1998 and give their commentsJohn - The 98 Kalimna Bin 28 is a fantastic example of the style showing dark berry fruits, raspberry, plum and cherry, expansive and mouth-filling with excellent concentration on the palate, a rich and full-structured 28 that is starting to drink well but will also be drinking well over the next 10 years.
Jason-Sweden - Do Penfolds run any wine-making courses or apprentiships in Australia? If so how can I get information on it?John - We are the only company in Australia that runs a graduate trainee programme where we take young wine makers fresh out of either the Adelaide University or Charles Sturt University wine making schools and fast-track the graduates over a 2 year period at many of our wine making locations and offer viticultural and other production experience.
rhudson - Why Bin 28?John - The word 'Bin' was first used in the 1950's by Penfolds to differentiate different batches of wine (a code) or it may refer to a storage area where a bottled wine was binned (stored) in our cellars before it was labelled and released for sale.
Simon - James Halliday in one of his many books claims that virtually every Australian wine has acid added to it in the winemaking process. Is acid added to Grange? If yes, in what recent vintages?John - We do if necessary add a small amount of natural grape acid to assist the balance of the wine. I would much prefer to allow the grapes to fully mature to maximise flavour and if necessary add a small amount of acid rather than pick the grapes too early when the acid might be OK, but the flavour is not fully developed.
NW - Are you feeling any more pressure (than ususal!) from the flurry of Aussie brands on the UK market?John - It's great to see the popularity and recognition of Australian's wines increasing all the time.
Polish Geoff - Is there any kind of wine you've not tried your hand at, and any that you'd like to?John - Personally I've been very impressed with some of Tempranillo wines from Spain and I'm sure it would be suited to the soils and climates we have in Australia.
Iain - Mr Parker didn't seem to be impressed with the 1998 Penfolds wines across the range, why do you think this is the case?John - At the tasting, which extended from 1952 to a barrel sample of the 2001 vintage, Robert Parker was very impressed with the 98 Grange. It will be interesting to see his comments when the article is published.
Alice Ottley - I want to start investing in Grange. What's the best year to start with?John - Happy to give you some recommendations but would be even happier if I could convince you to drink them in the end! In the last decade the better vintages have been 90, 91, 94, and 96.
Fred - Have magnums of the 1998 Bin 389 been released yet in Australia or the US?John - I know that small quantities of 389 have been released in Australia but I'm not aware of any being released in the US.
Simon - How long in days/weeks does a typicaal vintage of Grange remain in contact with the skins, during the production process?John - Because we have access to very old low-yielding Shiraz vineyards, we find that we can extract all the colour, flavour, concentration and structure in a relatively short fermentation of 5-7 days. We then finish the fermentation in 100% new barrels. We do not need to have an extended skin maceration period as is traditionally done in many parts of Europe.
Charlie - What's the best type of food (from anywhere in the world) that matches up best with a typical Penfolds Shiraz? My personal favourite is oriental-spiced chickenJohn - One of the more fascinating food and wine combinations I have experienced with Grange has been abalone cooked in a rich sauce which I must admit I had my doubts about but having experienced it, it was fantastic.
Gordy - I've got an unopened bottle of Yattarna Chardonnay 98 in the fridge - what would you eat with it? John - At the launch of Yattarna at the Penfolds Magill Estate restaurant (a must visit) we served it with pigeon but there are many combinations in terms of seafood and poultry which work very well.
Jason-Sweden - I am flying to London on Friday to attend your clinic with some of my wines. Will there be any tastings on your current releases?John - For those people who are booked into our clinic, we will have many of the Penfolds current released wines available for tasting.
Jason-Sweden - A lot of critics are giving this ('98 Kalimna) five gold stars, would you say this is the best Kalimna so far? What is the cellering potential for this vintage?John - I would it put it in the top 3 or 4 vintages since we started producing the Bin 28 in the early 60s. Cellaring potential is 10 to 15 years with patience.
John Shaw - I have bought a lot (100s of bottles) of your Bin407 but always as young wines. Do you keep any for future release or are they all sold as young wines ?John - The current policy is to only release our wines at one time (the annual release day) but perhaps it would be nice in the future if we can make more wine to keep some back for later release. At the moment because we are trying to supply global markets there is a lot of pressure to release it as young wine
Simon - When deciding which grapes to consider for inclusion in Grange, do you look at measurements of Baume, pH and total acidity? What other measurements do you look at?John - Yes, we regularly analyse these parameters when the fruit is maturing on the vine but we also rely heavily on flavour development and therefore tasting berries and the physical appearance of the fruit is just as important.
Simon in Wales - I have a number of bottles on Bin 94a and Bin 95a Chardonnay. When would you recomend they be drunk?John - Both are drinking very well. But the last time I saw 94a I thought it was at its peak so would recommend drinking this in the near future. In our Rewards of Patience (4th ed) we gave a drinking window for the 95a from now until 2007.
Doug - When living in Sydney in 1991, a neighbour presented me with a bottle of '69 Grange. The condition was we had to drink it that evening - it was tough but we managed. What would this vintage be worth today?John - I'm not sure about UK prices. I suggest you look it up on Decanter Fine Tracker if you're a subscriber, otherwise have a look at Langtons or Christies online, or any big auction house. The 1969 is a drink-now vintage - it was one of the lighter structured vintages of Grange and at 32 years of age I wouldn't be expecting it to be improving
Alexis - I still have some Kalimna Bin 28 from 1992. Would you expect them to still improve? How long can I still keep them?John - In Rewards of Patience we say Kalimna Bin 28 1992 has a drinking window from now to 2007
Mark Payne - Hi John - wine is my main passion and hobby. I will be made redundant in December, and having just turned 30, I am considering a change of career from the insurance industry. From your point of view, would wine be an area to go into at the moment? Any suggestions on qualifications or experience required if I was looking at going into wine making (not in England!) Many Thanks John - If you haven't worked in a vineyard or winery I suggest this would be a very good way to start. Having decided that this is the direction you want to head in, winemaking qualifications would be a big advantage.
Mark Payne - Will you be at the Decanter Fine Wine Encounter on Saturday?John - Yes
John-USA-Arizona - I'm a California Cabernet Sauvingnon fan but have come to enjoy the excellent Shiraz produced in Australia of late. I recently read an article in which the use of screw caps by NZ winemakers had become more common. Your views on the method of sealing?John - Technically the screwcap (Stelvin) was proved 30 years ago and is continuing to be improved. I have no problems technically with this closure, particularly for aromatic white wines and for everyday drinking wines. Unless the quality of cork is improved in the future you will see more in this area of screwcap and alternate closures. You shouldn't be put off, and that you will see more premium wines using this closure
Doug - Christmas is coming and my favourite part is picking 3 or 4 special wines for the dinner. What would be your recommendations to go with a typical British Turkey dinner - Starter - main & dessert?John - Although Penfolds doesn't make this wine, sparkling Shiraz is a great wine to have with turkey. I would certainly recommend the Seppelt's sparkling Shiraz.
John-USA-Arizona - Thank you for your reply, and believe me, I do enjoy my wines.
Doug - further to John (USA) on screw caps - what about plastic corks? Do they offer the same ageing capabilities as cork? Would you still see them only in the 'cheaper', drink young type wines?John - I wouldn't say cheaper wines, but at the moment they tend to be used on wines that don't need extended cellaring because they are a relatively new development and the cellaring potential is yet to be determined.
Alexis - I recently enjoyed a half bottle of your Botrytis Semilion. How would you say does this wine compare to the great sweet wines of the world? Which customer have you got in mind when you produce it?John - We make the wine for the enjoyment of people who like the sweeter, richer dessert style of wine. As much as I would like to say that it as good as the great wines of Sauternes, I think I would still be drinking Yquem.
Jason-Sweden - I found an old bottle of '66 Bin 620 in my Fathers celler several years ago, the collar is quite high. Does this have any value? Have you had any reports on these old vintages that are still drinkable?John - This was one of the special bin wines released in the 60s. It was one of my favourite wines and was instrumental in me deciding to work for Penfolds. In recent times when I have tasted the Bin 620, it has been a little variable and would suggest drinking, but in its day it was a fantastic wine. It is a blend of two-thirds Coonawara Cabernet and one third Coonawara Shiraz.
Anonymous - I've tried both vintages of RWT at the London Wine Trade Fair. The recent vintage was a significant improvement, but I don't think it's there yet. Can you gove us some idea of where you are going with the wine.John - I've been very pleased with both the 97 and 98 vintages of RWT but would admit that for a new wine more time will be needed to make a true assessment of the potential for this style. The reason why I've released this wine was that with all the access to fantastic Shiraz in the Barossa valley, only a small quantity is of the Grange style so I saw there was an opportunity to show case another style of Shiraz that wasn't so muscular, powerful and concentrated as Grange. The choice of french oak for RWT also helps to differentiate it from Grange.
Moderator - John and Kym are now going to taste the Bin 407 Cabernet Sauvignon 98.John - Unmistakeably a ripe, dark berry cabernet nose with sweet integrated oak. The palate is tight with sweet, fleshy blackcurrant fruit, typical cabernet tannins but ripe resulting in the structure that will reward cellaring over the next 10 to 15 years
Doug - Further to Alexis - how about the Aussie ports. I found them a great buy when I lived there and every bit as good as the real thing. Is this a major market for you? Is there not a lot exported - or am I just looking in the wrong places (UK).?John - I think that Australian fortified wines are world class. Unfortunately due to some of the wine laws, is difficult to sell at full range but the Penfolds Magill Tawny is available in a few selected specialist retailers.
Mark Payne - Pinot Noir. I don't think I've come across a Penfolds Pinot. Ever dabbled?John - We are dabbling but on a very small scale, just for sale in Australia through our cellar door sales outlet and at Magill Estate restaurant.
Moderator - John and Kym are now tasting the Bin 389 Cabernet Shiraz 1998 and will then go onto the 1989 vintage of the same wine.John - I'll start off by saying that I think the 98 Bin 389 is one of the best 389's ever. Unabashed, fleshy, blueberry and mulberry fruits leap from the glass, entwined with licorice and soy. Substantial weight and structure with great power. A generous palate with dark chocolate, fresh leather, coffee and anise flavours. Pronounced but fine tannins and classy integrated oak, complete a balanced structured palate. I would expect this to be drinking well to the year 2020.
Moderator - And now for the 1989....John - 89 was a warm to hot vintage, which produced a typical 389 but probably a slightly earlier drinking style. The nose shows plummy, cassis like aromas with hints of coconut, plummy sweet fruit flavours with softly integrated tannins. Drinking at its peak now.
Mark Payne - Finally, lets let loose. What's the best Australian Wine, and the best in the world? (In your opinion)John - Many people say that the 1962 Penfolds Bin 60A - a blend of two thirds Coonawara Cabernet and one third Kalimna Shiraz (Grange Shiraz) is the best. Althought the wine is 39 years old, the best bottles are still superb.
moderator - Thanks very much to John and Kym for an excellent live chat. John - Thank you everyone. You've asked some interesting and challenging questions. Don't forget that Penfolds has a website where you can keep up to date with what we're up to.
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