Petrol smell in Riesling 'a mistake': Chapoutier

Well what did they taste like? The proof is in the pudding.

"Of course its a mistake in the wine-making process blah blah"... man some winemakers make me laugh how they validate their linear view of what "they" constitute as an enjoyable wine. What next? Maybe convey to the drinker the optimum feeling one should endure pissing at the completion of the bottle?

a lot of interesting comments to read! Just returned from the States, and "petrol" was also a topic. I referred to the nicer German word Firne for older, mature Riesling, and distinguish Firne between a wine either still alive (great) or dead ("over the hill"). However, we should not want youngsters to show "petroly" notes, but when is a Riesling no longer a youngster? A 10 year old Saar Riesling is usually still a youngster.....

The petrol notes come from the carrotinoids produced on the berry of the skin when having a sunburn. These carrotinoids are transformed during the fermentation or maturing on the bottle to a substance giving of the petrol note. In warmer years you will have a more intense petrol nose. You can also initiate a sunburn to the skin by deleafing the grape zone alot later. The skin didnt produce enough wax yet to protect itself from the sun, the result is ofcourse a sunburn, carrotinoids. By the way, carrotinoids are clour pigments rangeing from yellow to orange. Those are just facts. Ofcourse the petrol nose is more intense if the wines are more concentrated. Hince, massive yield reduction. Down to 30 to 50 hl per ha. And thats quality work ofcourse. M.C. was referring to yound Rieseling wines. I am talking about old Riesling wines from the Rhinegau, Mosel, Nahe and Middle Rhine. Im more careful when I open a bottle of 2010 Riesling and I have the petrol note. Its way to early. And frankly, 2010 was a difficult year in Germany. But like I said, you can have a petrol nose in yound wines as you deleaf really late during the ripining stage, inducing a sunburn. There we go. Those are my two cents. Greetings from Rheingau,Germany

Winemakers have been saying this for years, especially in Australia. Finally people have seen it in a forum they respect and are commenting ... this is a great discussion for the industry to have ...

BTW, I'm in Michel Chapoutier's camp.

Cheers

Wow - so much animosity towards someone who is merely advocating for something to taste good. Those fortunate to live immersed in the wine trade too easily lose sight of this simple concept. Sure, wines which have uncommon character are cool. However, often what's so cool about them has more to do with their obscurity or difference than drinking pleasure.

There is nothing wrong with demanding that wines contribute to a pleasant experience. And Michel Chapourtier is simply offering his opinion that gasoline is not something he looks for in the glass - an opinion he is certainly entitled to and which the consumer at large likely shares.

A lot of very hard reactions against Michel Chapoutier here... Could it be that his words have been taking out of their context? I am afraid yes, indeed. What he said (or wanted to say) does make sense, despite what some people here may think, only based on the Decanter text. I wonder if they will have the guts to publish this message, which brings more explanation in the right context: http://www.drinksmediawire.com/afficher_cdp.asp?id=8201&lng=2
Read it please, and then you might understand too what Michel is talking about.

Mssrs. Casey and Johnson hit it. Chapoutier's no dummy and likely said what he did to garner the attention eventually given. Even before reading them I guffawed at the listed number of comments. Congrats to Adam for writing and publishing one of Decanter.com's most commented upon stories and for Michel for providing him fodder to do so. Well-played, sirs.

It would be interesting if a couple of German winemakers might weigh in on this topic as Mssr Chapoutier's arrogant assumption shouldn't be perceived as fact.

My limited experience and occasional delight with the classic sensation and olfactory perception of mineral/petrol/diesel/kerosene traits in Riesling has only come from better cru vineyards and old world producers in the Mosel.

Perhaps the Chapoutier joint venture in the Alsace, and his determination that the rest of us are wrong, has nothing to do with the grape and everything to do with the terroir where the finest Rieslings are made?

Chapoutier may have established a successful winery in the Rhone but to make such a criticism of what is often considered a defining aroma of Riesling around the release of his Alsace range, is surely a publicity stunt?

Why can't I find David Vergari's email address when I want it? All I want to add is, "Bravo."

Maybe they are on to something new in this new "problem". What with the Chinese rage with French Wines and oh... they must be full of wet bandaid barnyard aroma. Try to explain to a Chinese buyer that this is actually a flaw, from bacteria and they will laugh at you, but hey it sells and some are darn good so who cares. Now we may have a new flaw and this all just marketing B.S.

You know, of course, this means war.

Like so many Frenchmen he's making stuff up to be controversial. That petrol character shows up in Rieslings from the world over, in some more than others, perhaps, but it is indeed a characteristic of the grape and the wines it makes.

If we made Riesling in Texas it would probably NOT smell like petrol, and THAT, my friends, would be a flawed Riesling.

Hi David

Really, M. Chapoutier?

Shall we now have Egon Mueller or a member of the Weinbach or Trimbach families comment contentiously on viognier or syrah? Would they consider themselves qualified to comment on certain nuances in venerable wines outside of their ken?(...given that M. Chapoutier has apparently done so.)

Even if this story is true, this is like the saying of "Becoming older is defect in human being." Finding a fact is not necessarily the same as finding a defect.

Let's try his wines in 10 years times... and drink meanwhile Riesling from the 'right' side :-)

What a shameful ploy for attention to his new wine! He makes it sound like he really hasn't tasted much riesling in his life. I'd rather have someone (Official) explain why new world rieslings develop the petrol aroma at a much younger age than a majority of German, Alsace and Austrian rieslings. Having tasted, purchased and sold wines for over a decade in retail and restaurant settings and being an admitted riesling freak; I have tasted over two decades of riesling vintages, countless producers from Margaret River to the Nahe. It can take almost a decade for the petrol to develop and intensify in some European rieslings, while it is apparent almost immediately in Aussie rieslings. I can honestly say that petrol is an intriguing characteristic of riesling. It's a signature of the grape, not a flaw. I'm curious to know what Michel Chapoutier would say about red Burgundy. I'm thinking he would defend any fecal aromas of Pinot Noir as the beautiful terroir of France than rather it be some flaw of winemaking. Let's keep in mind that it is the Rhone producers, who have tried to deal with the spoilage yeast, Brettanomyces. Why make a negative comment towards a varietal that needs heroes, not antagonists.

Did his Rieslings fail to show that prized petrol character? "Oh well, then that character must be a flaw ... its not in my wines ..." Not exactly a comment to take seriously.

When Chapoutier makes a Riesling that smells like petrol, will he hide his "mistake" or release the wine? I am still shaking my head at his pronouncement! He must have been misquoted, right?

My wife can't load a dishwasher to save her life. It's a fault, but charming and one of the things I love about her.

Long live Riesling's petrol nose.

I am unequipped technically to address Michel Chapoutier's negative comments about the so-called petrol characteristic of rieslings.


But I did raise a facet of the issue recently with my friend Ernst Loosen of Dr. Loosen, in the Mosel, at a Manhattan seminar on his rieslings, including Eroica, and those of Bob Bertheau of Chateau Ste Michelle, in Washington State.



"Since the word petrol as a descriptor is so heavily burdened with negativism," I asked Ernst, "have you ever ransacked the vocabularies of Western languages for a synonym that harbors more-positive connotations?"



Ernst offered a German word, "firn" (pronounced fear-n). It denotes, he said, an aroma we've all encountered -- indeed I have, though rarely -- when we walk into a closed room containing old wooden furniture, perhaps generations-old antiques, that has been keep clean, dust-free and systematically oiled. The warm, mellow aroma radiated is "firn." A nice, graphic analogy, I thought.



I immediately put a question to my ever-eloquent friend Terry Theise: What denotative and connotative meaning(s) do you personally attach to "firn."



Terry's reply: “ 'Firn' as I understand it, describes a quality of oxidation that isn’t associated with decay. Sherry is a classic example of the phenomenon. An oxidized wine has aspects of death about it. Something in it is perishing, or has perished. A wine with 'firn' is aging, even aged, but it is very much alive. Indeed it is only diminished in terms of its youthfulness. Its vital core is active and expressive."



To possibly add a further dimension of meaning, I plan to put the question to my friend Stuart Pigott at the Riesling & Company seminar preceding the public tasting here in Manhattan.




Howard G Goldberg, New York City

Mr. Chapoutier with his words is saying that all those great Riesling producers famous for developing kerosene character, and all the people who enjoy them, are stupid people.

I would love to see some answers from top Alsace producers.

I use to be a Sommelier and I remenber the time when I was looking for this distinc Petrol feature from Alsace rieslings, which I love ...

What about the Terroir/soil?

He could be right. Maybe not. But I don't think he's the sort to make stuff up. What does Jeffrey Grosset say?

These modern "winemakers" will soon have all wines tasting so "correctly" with their "scientific" methods that they will soon have me drinking Coca Cola...

Interesting comment, although I would have expected a more scientific, or rather considered, comment from a such highly regarded wine professional like Mr Chapoutier. Chapoutier's comment does not explain why hotter grown Riesling (e.g. Clare) show petroleum characters from earliest youth while cooler grown grapes show this character later or in very cool climes, basically never (practically unknown on the Moselle, although the first signs are now becoming noticed, (in all likelihood due to climatical change)), REGARDLESS of vinification techniques. Chapoutiers comments I put down to marketing and his desire to pass himself off as some type of "super oenologist" status to a gulliable public. Shame, I expected more from you Mr Chapoutier - my regard for your wines has just taken a big dive.

I was flabbergasted to read Decanter.com about Michel Chapoutier and petrol taste in Riesling. He says it's a result of a mistake during winemaking. This is not true.

As professor Hans Reiner Schultz states in his article "The future of German Riesling" in TONG's German Riesling issue: "Science has not yet fully explained the cause of TDN and its resulting kerosene aromas. In general, TDN levels in Riesling grapes, which is present in the grape flesh, rise when the grapevine experiences drought, heat and nitrogen deficiency. This appears to indicate that TDN is connected to stress. Its content is linked to sugar increase, and so its level rises with grape ripening, especially in hot climates. But different clones and different yeast strains during fermentation can enhance the level of TDN in grapes and must.
One of the most easily measurable parameters is temperature and sun exposure. When directly exposed to sunlight, and when the leaves have been removed in the fruit zone, Riesling grapes have much higher levels of TDN than shaded grapes. Other research has found that TDN levels decrease when the pH of the grape juice rises. In general, this is linked to soil fertility and nutrient availability, especially nitrogen and potassium. The higher the nutrient availability, the lower TDN levels appear to be. TDN is clearly linked to viticultural management, and winegrowers can substantially influence its levels in grapes."

It is good he only makes riesling on the wrong side of the border.....

Riesling should never smell of petrol - that should fuel an interesting debate !!!

So, according to Chapoutier, most of the German Rieslings are faulty. C'mon! :-)

at last I found someone who I agree with on that one.
I have never understood the attraction of the "kero" character in Australian aged Rieslings. Glad there is one other person who now agrees malescowinebroker.com

This view is not really new – indeed the topic was examined in my book ‘Wine Quality’.
The compound TDN (1,1,6-trimethyl-1,2-dihydronaphthalene), a norisoprenoid which gives rise to the kerosene aromas, and has been the subject of considerable research. However, the real question is whether a technical flaw or fault can sometimes add complexity and excitement. As with Brettanomyces, generally considered to be a fault but regarded by some producers in the Southern Rhône as part of their wines identity, it is perhaps a matter of level, and is boundary dependent. Put simply do we want to excommunicate something that is regarded positively by many educated and passionate lovers of these wines? Purity can be very boring.

Keith Grainger

Sounds like another crackpot theory from the family name associated with another great crackpot theory, Biodynamics. In 20 years of growing and making Riesling my own observations are that the petrol/kerosene character is more pronounced in warmer vintages and never develops before the wine is 5 years old. In my view the petrol/kerosene character is climate-derived (a terroir effect if you like)expressed through bottle-age. We press at low pressures over 4-5 hours and we still see these characters evolving over time and we welcome them. Provided it is not excessive, the petrol/kerosene character is a valid and desirable component of aged Riesling; it is certainly not a winemaking fault.

Roger Parkinson
Nga Waka Vineyard
Martinborough
New Zealand

I guess the aldehyde character of fino sherry must be a fault too...

Chapoutier then takes the same view as the organisation for the "file and rank" of German wine producers, Deutsches Weininstitut (DWI); those producers who to a large extent cater to domestic drinkers of cheap bottlings of the latest vintage, rather than of mature Rieslings, where petrol notes traditionally are an integral part. DWI actually removed petroleum from the German translation of Ann C. Noble's famous wine aroma well, and apparently forces judges in wine competitions arranged by them to mark down wines with petrol aromas.

Hearing these views from Alsace is more rare than hearing them from Germany, though.

I had never before heard Chapoutier's explanation for the petrol aromas. Water stress of the grapes is typically seen as contributing to the "petrol potential", with maturation of the wine doing the rest. Of course, if the compounds created by water stress are found primarily in the veins, both explanations could be true.

This seems a very strange categorical comment when all Riesling develops towards a mineral profile over time.
I agree that early development of 'Petrol' characters is not usually a good sign and is usually accompanied by a loss of structure and increase in colour. However pretty much any Riesling worth anything will move from a fruit to mineral (more kerosene than petrol) profile over time - in Alsace they refer to it as 'the wine returning to the soil'. These great wines retain all the freshness and vibrancy of their youth with the mineral elements adding to their charm.
Perhaps M.Chapoutier could apply the same magnifying glass to early oxidation in Rhone whites before pronouncing on the wines of Alsace.
It will be interesting to hear his views when looking at his own Rieslings in 10 years.
Paul Pujol
Prophet's Rock(Central Otago)

What a story! My initial feeling is that what Michel said is provocative at best. Too many Alsatian wine producers pride themselves on at least light petrol notes as part of the aromatic profile in certain Rieslings. Not all Rieslings have it, and those that do, express it to varying degrees. And it can indeed be pleasing to most lovers of Riesling, when it is not too pronounced. Same goes for German Rieslings. So hard to brush this all aside as a fault, methinks. Still, a great story. Nice job!